Talk:Computer file

Oldest file?

Digital files existed years before the advent of digital computers. Digital information emerged with writing, especially using alphabet. The first digital files, i.e. digital information stored in a digital storage systems were printing type stored in galleys for proof reading. The Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition of 1911 was stored, (and edited) as sequences of Monotype font at least until 1929 when the 14th edition appeared.

Other early forms of digital information include punched cards and paper tape (as well as cards for the Jacquard loom).

This brings as to the question; what is the oldest digital file in existence? Has it already entered the public domain?

Project Gutenberg and other similar efforts have used OCR techniques to recreate the original typesetting "files" from printed paper copies of books and newspapers. Although the information is old, I would not call the resulting files "old", as they are recreated from non-digital storage.

-- Petri Krohn 08:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Competition

The aim of this competition is to find a link to the oldest file, that has remained in digital storage from its creation. Please list your entries (and links) here:

needed

I see nothing here on access dates nor does the string 'meta' occur. Need something on the metadata associated with files by the OS, I think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.93.197.67 (talk) 22:13, 17 October 2006

I agree, that's what i'm looking for. -Oxinabox (talk) 03:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"File contents" section incomprehensible

IMHO this section badly needs a rewrite. I cannot make sense of things like

the general definition of a file does not contstain its instant size as having any real meaning, unless the data within the file happens to correspond to data within a pool of persistent storage.

and

In Unix-like systems, user-space processes do not normally deal with files at all; the operating system provides a level of abstraction which means that almost all interaction with files from user-space is through hard links.

and

In some cases, computer programs manipulate files that are made visible to the computer user

Well, I can make sense of them, after I decode them using previous knowledge. But they, and a lot of the other text, simply don't seem relevant and do more to confuse than enlighten.

The text also seems unaware of the out-of-fashion record-based file systems; it mentions files containing records, but seems to list it among application-level design choices.

I am tempted to make an attempt — although I'm mostly familiar with Unix files.

JöG 22:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Idea

I was wondering if wiki has a list of different file types with links to them. (Ex. files ending with .txt, .wo4, .skn, etc. as well as a link to them explaining the difference.) Perhaps that would be too specialized, and there are alot of different file types but I would find it helpful. Give me your opinions or where a link to that might be. If there is such a link maybe it should be added to the end of the article? Thanks Flclovesun 19:55, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Corrupt Files

So what is a corrupt file. It could be something we should add. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.53.222.122 (talk) 21:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done! — Avelludo 20:26, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Opening a file

Noticing someone asking what this phrase means at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing#What does it mean to open a file? I looked around in various articles and found ones that use it but none that define or explain it. Is this the article that ought to say something along that line? Jim.henderson (talk) 04:05, 6 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This may either move the file in the filesystem, copy the file in the filesystem, or save memory-held contents to the destination file. If the destination file already exists, it will be deleted first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.96.152.86 (talk) 02:16, 29 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What is a file?

The article says:

"A computer file is a resource for storing information ..."

I am no expert, but I am a literate computer user. I understand a file to be an irreducible object or entity in the data storage structure of a computer. I don't know the history of the term in the context of computing, but it seems to me that defining a file to be an irreducible object or entity would be more perspicuous, more utilitarian, and more accurate than defining it as "a resource for storing information". ---Dagme (talk) 07:31, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Can't say you're wrong ... since I don't know what irreducible object means. or perspicuous. :) You sound like an expert to me :) Stevebroshar (talk) 17:29, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is a file? (again)

Again on the same point touched by Dagme almost 4 years ago.

A (computer) file is not defined by just the hardware resource where it is written. Semantically the term "file" is something closer to its information content, that which remains the same inside another copy of the same file. A file though does not coincides with a copy of itself: two copies of anything may be close or identical to almost all practical purposes, but still are physically separated.

Wiktionary defines file (=computer file) as: Etymology 1 4. : "(computing) An aggregation of data on a storage device, identified by a name." This definition is more restrictive, because it adds the necessary condition of a specific information content.

It is suggested that the article sentence:

"A computer file is a computer resource for recording data discretely in a computer storage device."

is replaced by:

"A computer file is an aggregation of data on a storage device, identified by a name."

The rest of the article should not remain as it stands now, as the updated definition requires amendment of the existing explanations and examples, as well as explanations and examples about the "aggregation of data" that are specific to any given file. It may be remarked that this goes together with the added necessary condition to the definition, that represents the "application" point of view in addition to the "system", or "physical", point of view.

BORGATO Pierandrea 17:18, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

What does this mean: "'file' is something closer to its information content, that which remains the same inside another copy of the same file"? You're saying if I copy a file, I don't have two files? ... since the content of the two things is the same? What do you call these things? I call them files. If I copy a file, I have two files ... that happen to have the same content. ... I do think that 'resource' is an awkward term. Stevebroshar (talk) 17:40, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is a file? (again, again)

The article is primarily about ordinary files, stored on secondary media: There is no mention of

Ram based file-systems
Calculated files (not stored): /proc
special files: devices, symbolic-links, directories, etc.

ctrl-alt-delor 2021-01-08T0645 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.70.58.138 (talk) 06:49, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good to me. Add that. :) Stevebroshar (talk) 17:43, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

File Size

The following text was placed at the end of the second paragraph of the "File Size" section:

(This is misleading because /dev/null is not really a file: in Unix-like systems, all resources, including devices, are accessed like files, but there is still a real distinction between files and devices—at core, they behave differently—and the obscurity of the "size" of /dev/null is one manifestation of this. As a character device, /dev/null has no size.)

This reads to me as more of a comment/correction rather than encyclopedic content. I haven't gone through the trouble of finding the author of this addition. I believe it adds meaningful content, but not in the way it is written. Since I am not an expert on the inner workings of Unix-like files, I've only removed it so someone more capable can properly correct the article.

— Avelludo 00:28, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not a great start

WRT "A computer file is a resource for recording data on a computer storage device, primarily identified by its filename" I wouldn't say it's a resource for recording data. It is a resource and it is recorded data. But as-is, it sounds like it's saying a file is a facility. For example, if I say "my friend is a good resource for learning how to sew" that means my friend can provide a service to someone as a teacher. But, a file provides no service. It has not functionality. It just is data; or contains data. How about: a computer file is a resource that stores data.

Also, I think it's arguable what the filename is the primary identifier. The file name is an identifier that users use primarily, but the system probably primarily uses something else. Stevebroshar (talk) 13:39, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]