Talk:Nigel Farage

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This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

"Ukip leader Nigel Farage denies he's dead". Kent News. 29 September 2011.

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Bias

Needs serious revision. Reads like has been written by a biased political commentator. Example: first sentence claims he is “most famous politician never to be elected to commons” 77.97.252.158 (talk) 21:46, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That claim has now been removed. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:50, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding "Army Cadet Force" to his infobox?

Im not knowledged fully on the standards or the etiquite of infoboxes, however it was stated by Farage that he was a regimental sergeant major in the army cadets which is a youth organisation sponsored by the Ministry of Defence and actively puts cadets on British army assets. 82.19.124.65 (talk) 10:28, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox is already very crowded and have had to create a collapsable section. In any case, whilst the cadets are sponsored by the MoD, the rank you reference is not a military office in the traditional sense with formal responsibilities. WestminsterWhistleblower (talk) 20:21, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lede image

There has been some reversion of the lede image.

It was suggested in June that a new image was needed, which I agree with, as the longer standing image is:

out of date, being 6 years old
isn't a particularly good image because of the position of the subject's head

I uploaded two current images, taken with professional equipment, and which represent him giving a speech, which is probably what he is best known for. The one in use was him against a background of a Reform party branding, but there is also one with a (natural) black background which makes him stand out more.

Black background version
Version used in page through June
Original page picture

I think it does need an up-to-date image. Views are welcome

OwainDavies ^(about)_(talk) edited at 08:59, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He will get a MP portrait whenever Parliament reconvenes, so I suggest keeping the original 2018 version for now. Dingers5Days (talk) 16:57, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now it's been changed to another one with a red background. Why can't people wait for the official MP picture? Kiwiz1338 (talk) 10:44, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now to one from about ten years ago. If I'm not mistaken parliament will reconvene on Tuesday. Maurnxiao (talk) 15:39, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The current image (as of this comment) looks clownish. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:10, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think either the 2018 one or this until a official gets sourced, not one from 2014 Mewhen123 (talk) 18:37, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Current picture is very bad, we better return the 2018 picture and wait until his official portrait as MP is released. Shadow4dark (talk) 20:37, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
another option is this Mewhen123 (talk) 20:46, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Much better than the clownish one Shadow4dark (talk) 22:24, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mewhen123 That works, pending the official photo for MPs. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:33, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer "Original page picture" I dont think the new photos in the white are an improvement. Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 11:06, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think use the black one. The original one is 6 years old and the one with the branding has diffucult head placement DimensionalFusion (talk) 09:15, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reform UK section, no mention that he more or less owns the company

It’s a weird section anyway, seems mainly about him. What does gin have with it? Why nothing about his shares in the party or rather the Reform UK Party Limited?[1] Doug Weller talk 17:50, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How was my edit not supported by the cited sources?

[2] "Reform UK Party Limited was founded in November 2018 as an “entrepreneurial political start-up”. Mr Farage owns 53 per cent of the company." "'But with 115,00 paying supporters with no voting power to influence policy, Reform has admitted its structure might not be sustainable in the long-term - something that could change after this year’s election."

How about their website? [3] "'Promoted by Paul Oakden - Copyright © 2024 Reform UK Party Limited Company number 11694875 | Registered in England & Wales" Or https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11694875 {https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/sunak-is-in-farages-pocket-peter-kellner-polling/] "The key thing is that Reform UK is not a conventional political party. It is a registered company, “Reform UK Party Limited”. Eight of the 15 issued shares in the company belong to Farage. Tice has five of the other seven. (Michael Crick, Farage’s unauthorised biographer, tells me that Tice confirms Farage is still the majority shareholder.) Farage has the sole legal right “to appoint and remove directors”. Tice leads the party, but Farage owns it." Doug Weller talk 09:17, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let's look at what I removed.

The first reference was cited for the first three sentences:

Reform UK Party Ltd. a rename of the earlier company, has fifteen shares.

There is no mention of "Reform UK Party Ltd." in the source, no mention of it being a rename and no mention of there being 15 shares.

Farage owns eight of these, giving him a controlling majority.

There is no mention of him owning 8 shares.

The other shareholders are Tice, who holds five, and Chief Executive Paul Oakden and Party Treasurer Mehrtash A'Zami who each hold one share.

There is no mention of Tice holding 5 shares or of the other two holding one each.

The second reference was cited for the fourth sentence:

Since 2021, the party has options to become a member, rather than a supporter.

There is no mention of "since 2021" in the source.

So I'd say that my edit summary (per WP:OR as not supported by the cited sources) was correct. -- DeFacto (talk). 10:19, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@DeFacto You are right about the second source, but although the first doesn't mention the number of shares I was about to source that when you reverted. It clearly mentions Reform UK ltd."What is Reform UK?

Reform UK Party Limited was founded in November 2018 as an “entrepreneurial political start-up”. Mr Farage owns 53 per cent of the company." "Meanwhile, Mr Tice has a minority holding of around one-third of shares, and chief executive Paul Oakden and party treasurer Mehrtash A’zami each hold less than 7 per cent." and "But with 115,00 paying supporters with no voting power to influence policy, Reform has admitted its structure might not be sustainable in the long-term - something that could change after this year’s election."

Shareholders: {https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/sunak-is-in-farages-pocket-peter-kellner-polling/] "The key thing is that Reform UK is not a conventional political party. It is a registered company, “Reform UK Party Limited”. Eight of the 15 issued shares in the company belong to Farage. Tice has five of the other seven. (Michael Crick, Farage’s unauthorised biographer, tells me that Tice confirms Farage is still the majority shareholder.) Farage has the sole legal right “to appoint and remove directors”. Tice leads the party, but Farage owns it." Doug Weller talk 10:44, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Financial Times doesn't number the shares either[4] quoting again the percentage owned. "Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found here.

https://www.ft.com/content/4059c92f-9bb3-484a-b8aa-e42f5c5cc797

But as Farage owns 53 per cent of Reform UK Ltd, according to company filings, he is able to remove Tice as a director or take the decision to unilaterally dissolve the organisation, marking him as the party’s ultimate kingmaker. Tice has a minority holding of around one-third of all shares, while chief executive Paul Oakden and party treasurer Mehrtash A’zami each hold less than 7 per cent." But Ben Habib did say " he conceded that a private company, where control is vested in two people, was likely to be unsustainable in the long term." Note that FT article is before the election.

The Conservative post [5] "The Reform UK Party Ltd. has 15 shares. The shareholders are Nigel Farage, who holds 8, and Richard Tice, who holds 5. Chief Executive Paul Oakden and Party Treasurer Mehrtahs A’Zami hold 1 share each."

This is all public knowledge and a key aspect of the party and admitted by their websites. How can this be a BLP violation. Do I really have to go to RSN? Or tag the article as NPOV? Doug Weller talk 11:02, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first source didn't support any of the three sentences it was used for. If you think it does, please quote the part of that source that supports each of the following:

"Reform UK Party Ltd." (which is not the same as "Reform UK Party Limited")
That it was renamed to that
That it has 15 shares
That Farage holds 8 shares
That Tice holds 5 shares
That Oakden holds 1 share
That A'Zami holds 1 share

Please research a wide cross-section of RSes, and if you think the consensus amongst them is that the structure of the party is notable, then summarise that into a balanced and impartial couple of sentences, and bring them here, with the supporting sources, to see if there is a consensus to include them. -- DeFacto (talk). 11:07, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I missed the fact that the statement by Habib was folloed by "Tice noted the party was likely to change its structure eventually but did not consider the move urgent as members input, though welcome, was not always necessary. “Overall advisers advise, directors decide,”

You are nit picking about Ltd and Limited. Their website says Limited. Bloomberg doesn't mention details, just says "Reform Uk Party Ltd was founded in 2018. The company's line of business includes membership organization established to promote the interests of a national, State, and local political party and candidate"https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/1974888D:LN?embedded-checkout=true] Again, Ltd and Limited mean the same. There is NO doubt at all about the company status. It's mentioned in many sources.

The European says "The key thing is that Reform UK is not a conventional political party. It is a registered company, “Reform UK Party Limited”. Eight of the 15 issued shares in the company belong to Farage. Tice has five of the other seven. (Michael Crick, Farage’s unauthorised biographer, tells me that Tice confirms Farage is still the majority shareholder.) Farage has the sole legal right “to appoint and remove directors”. Tice leads the party, but Farage owns it."[6]

The Guardian:[7] "The tensions go back to the formation in March 2019 of the Brexit party, which was renamed Reform UK in 2021. Determined to avoid the rebellions that had disrupted the Ukip party, Farage and others created a company that he could control rather than a conventional political party that had to be managed. "Farage owns a majority of shares in Reform UK Party Ltd, which is registered with Companies House. While four officers are named on the register, Farage is the only one named there as a “person with significant control”."

Do you agree that it is a limited company?

How many sources would satisfy you"

What is the exact BLP violation? Come on, User:DeFacto this belongs in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doug Weller (talk • contribs) 11:50, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]