Achilles is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome
This article is supported by WikiProject Mythology. This project provides a central approach to Mythology-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the WikiProject page for more details.MythologyWikipedia:WikiProject MythologyTemplate:WikiProject MythologyMythology
This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 11 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Heatherskittles (article contribs).
For several reasons, we shouldn't keep that Dares Phrygius content.
It's very late; we might as well include medieval descriptions.
We've no reason to think it epitomic; it deviates massively from Homer and classical versions of the Troy epic, excising gods and reducing the Trojan Horse to a gate motif.
Frazer's translation dignifies it; the actual Latin text 12–13 is curt, a series of keywords with no sentences or even verbs (the whole passage is like an ancient draft of a table of characteristics of Trojan and Greek characters - the author would have loved infoboxes) which even Cornil's plainer translation gussies up: "Achilles had a large chest, a charming mouth, large, powerful limbs and long manes of curly hair. He was gentle, fierce in battle and generous. He had a cheerful face and chestnut hair."[1]
The happenstance of its survival doesn't require inclusion; as WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE says, "merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia".
By including it, however much we qualify it as later and falsely attributed, we give readers a false impression of its standing; why would Wikipedia include it if it wasn't authoritative?
@NebY, greeting. Honestly I don't see a big problem with adding that quote, given that we mention the late antique date of its writing. That description does not contradict Homer's description of Achilles as well. I leave the last word to Picco. Becarefulbro (talk) 19:04, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello NebY, thanks for the tag. As you could tell, I don't have a very strong opinion about this one. When I saw that Becarefulbro restored it, I didn't bother reverting, because personally I didn't mind the text being there, as long as it was properly described for what it is, instead of the previous misleading title "the accounts of Dares Phrygius" (if you hadn't commented about it, I wouldn't have paid attention myself). I also saw this source being used in other articles as well, so I was just neutral about it. If you really feel like it's not suitable to be there, I personally wouldn't insist, especially now that I added a couple more sentences and the section isn't just one sentence long. Piccco (talk) 19:10, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the fact that it is "decidedly pro-Trojan" (as Theoi.com says) makes sense and indirectly confirms that it is a late Latin work and couldn't have been based on an earlier Greek original, since the Romans saw themselves descendants of the Trojans and liked to paint them in a positive light. So, the text centrainly diverges from the earlier Greek canon where Achilles came from. Piccco (talk) 19:27, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]