Talk:Ethnic cleansing

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Ethnic cleansing and extermination

I think that removing it here is unwarranted; many sources include it as a way that ethnic cleansing is carried out, while others definitionally exclude it. Per NPOV both definitions must be mentioned.

"ethnic cleansing comprises not only ethnic expulsions and extermination during war"[1]
"The term “ethnic cleansing” refers to deportations or killings conducted by a state, or a non-state actor that controls territory, that victimize a substantial segment of an ethnic group on the state’s or non-state actor’s territory (for more detail on this definition, see Bulutgil 2016). According to this definition, “genocide” is a subcategory of ethnic cleansing in which the victimization primarily takes the form of killings rather than deportations."[2]
"On the one hand, ethnic cleansing is defined as the "system- atic and violent removal of undesired ethnic groups from a given territory."31 This definition is used to distinguish ethnic cleansing-as a form of violence-from gen- ocide by its intent to merely remove a group from an area rather than to exterminate the group altogether.32 On the other hand, there is the definition of ethnic cleansing that incorporates the possibility of group extermination-that is, the systematic forced removal, by any means necessary including extermination, of ethnic, racial, and/or religious groups from a given area.33 This second definition, which is widely accepted in the general public sphere,34 leads people to assume the term is inter- changeable with the term genocide."[3]

(t · c) buidhe 05:46, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well I agree completely, and that was also why the above previous issue was raised. But I agreed on taking it out because it is better dealt by the statement about the genocide convention. Moving up the genocide convention was then to facilitate a more nuanced and complete perspective on what and especially how extermination and genocide are considered as related to ethnic cleansing. So yes I am all for expanding on that and there (where ever it ends up in the lead, though further up would have helped this issue, but ok so be it)! So expand on it at the convention para. Nsae Comp (talk) 06:37, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chill: sorry for my last edit I seem to have not seen the insertion of mass killing. Thanks! For me that seems sufficient. Nsae Comp (talk) 07:05, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, the current version with Buidhe's changes including mass killing in the lede doesnt present major NPOV concerns. The term "extermination" is non-controversial genocide under the Genocide Convention and the euphemistic use of "ethnic cleansing" has fallen out of favor. I dont think we do NPOV any justice by presenting it uncritically as a synonym for genocide. Maybe we can expand on the article content for this about which Nsae Comp has already made some helpful edits. Ben Azura (talk) 07:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can we add this image?

Palestinian refugees.jpg

Man see school nakba.jpg

The description of the violent expulsion of Palestinians to make way for the new state of Israel in 1948 (the Nakba) as ethnic cleansing is widely accepted by most historians.^[1] May we please add one of these images to this article? It would serve a purpose not only in demonstrating ethnic cleansing, but also in describing the historiography, why it can be disputed by some historians outside the fringe, etc. 222.152.25.14 (talk) 21:38, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Sabbagh-Khoury 2023, pp. 30, 65, 71, 81, 182, 193–194; Abu-Laban & Bakan 2022, p. 511; Manna 2022; Pappe 2022, pp. 33, 120–122, 126–132, 137, 239; Hasian Jr. 2020, pp. 77–109; Khalidi 2020, pp. 12, 73, 76, 231; Slater 2020, pp. 81–85; Shenhav 2019, pp. 49–50, 54, and 61; Bashir & Goldberg 2018, pp. 20 and 32 n.2; Confino 2018, p. 138; Masalha 2018, pp. 44, 52–54, 64, 319, 324, 376, 383; Nashef 2018, pp. 5–6, 52, 76; Auron 2017; Rouhana & Sabbagh-Khoury 2017, p. 393; Al-Hardan 2016, pp. 47–48; Natour 2016, p. 82; Rashed, Short & Docker 2014, pp. 3–4, 8–18; Masalha 2012; Wolfe 2012, pp. 153–154, 160–161; Khoury 2012, pp. 258, 263–265; Knopf-Newman 2011, pp. 4–5, 25–32, 109, 180–182; Lentin 2010, ch. 2; Milshtein 2009, p. 50; Ram 2009, p. 388; Shlaim 2009, pp. 55, 288; Esmeir 2007, pp. 249–250; Sa'di 2007, pp. 291–293, 298, 308; Pappe 2006; Schulz 2003, pp. 24, 31–32

The Alhambra Decree was "an early example of ethnic cleansing"

The article says that the The Alhambra Decree was "an early example of ethnic cleansing."

While I personally believe it was ethnic cleansing, do we have reputable sources that state this? The fact that Jews were allowed to convert and stay also challenges traditional notions of "ethnic" cleansing, and suggests that religion was the core focal point.

To be clear, I am not defending what the Spanish did (it was despicable obviously), but it seems like this characterization might be original synthesis.

The following articles on the expulsion and pogroms of Jews from Spain do not even have the phrase "ethnic cleansing" even once:

Phantomette (chat) 19:51, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Removed (t · c) buidhe 20:28, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

'etnicheskoye chishcheniye' doesn't exist in the Russian language

Such a combination of words doesn't exist in the Russian Language Hew Folly (talk) 17:42, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[EC-1] Sabbagh-Khoury 2023, pp. 30, 65, 71, 81, 182, 193–194; Abu-Laban & Bakan 2022, p. 511; Manna 2022; Pappe 2022, pp. 33, 120–122, 126–132, 137, 239; Hasian Jr. 2020, pp. 77–109; Khalidi 2020, pp. 12, 73, 76, 231; Slater 2020, pp. 81–85; Shenhav 2019, pp. 49–50, 54, and 61; Bashir & Goldberg 2018, pp. 20 and 32 n.2; Confino 2018, p. 138; Masalha 2018, pp. 44, 52–54, 64, 319, 324, 376, 383; Nashef 2018, pp. 5–6, 52, 76; Auron 2017; Rouhana & Sabbagh-Khoury 2017, p. 393; Al-Hardan 2016, pp. 47–48; Natour 2016, p. 82; Rashed, Short & Docker 2014, pp. 3–4, 8–18; Masalha 2012; Wolfe 2012, pp. 153–154, 160–161; Khoury 2012, pp. 258, 263–265; Knopf-Newman 2011, pp. 4–5, 25–32, 109, 180–182; Lentin 2010, ch. 2; Milshtein 2009, p. 50; Ram 2009, p. 388; Shlaim 2009, pp. 55, 288; Esmeir 2007, pp. 249–250; Sa'di 2007, pp. 291–293, 298, 308; Pappe 2006; Schulz 2003, pp. 24, 31–32

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