Talk:Germany national football team

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Germany national football team article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2

Football: Germany / National High‑importance

	Association football portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FootballWikipedia:WikiProject FootballTemplate:WikiProject Footballfootball articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the German football task force (assessed as Top-importance).
	This article is supported by the national teams task force (assessed as Top-importance).

Germany High‑importance

	Germany portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 3 times. The weeks in which this happened:

Archives

Index 1, 2

Article split

This article was quite long at 160kB, and the History section in particular was long, so I decided to WP:SPLIT the article. Wiki guidelines state that articles over 100kB are WP:TOOBIG and should be divided. I created a new article for the History of the Germany national football team. I am condensing this main article, both the History section and other historical aspects, because there is no need to duplicate the History article. The result should be that this main article is much more readable, while the full historical context is still preserved in the History article. Barryjjoyce (talk) 02:12, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Top goalscorers

Why are the East German footballers not included in the Wikipedia list as per the DFB? Either they should be included or some rationale should be given for their exclusion. Tinbath (talk) 20:12, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The East German team has it´s own article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.128.90.123 (talk) 22:49, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ilkay Gundogan

He last played in August of last year so shouldn't he be listed under "recent callups"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.45.85.82 (talk) 02:31, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nickname "Die Mannschaft"

Does anyone have a viable source for that? No one ever calls them "die Mannschaft" to my knowledge, and I am from Germany. Just saying the common word for "team" doesn't make much sense after all. If I'd tell a friend that "die Mannschaft" is playing tonight, the answer would just be "Which team?". It's true that "Nationalmannschaft" is largly identified with the DFB men's football team, but it can also refer to handball, volleyball, Olympic athletes, etc.

--Tallyho (talk) 10:33, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Almost every British announcer calls them that. Google it. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:21, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have to add in although every British announcer "may call them that [mannschaft]", it's (a) actually wrong and never used in Germany, and (b) not frequently used in Britain. I have only rarely seen Mannschaft used in britain whereas the more obvious Germany, German team etc. are used. - Master Of Ninja (talk) 20:31, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter if it's not correct German, this isn't the German Wikipedia, it's the English Wikipedia. As for "not frequently used in Britian", you're wrong. Google the term and switch to the news tab. It's a very, very common term. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:20, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, then almost every British announcer is incorrect. I think you should specify in the article, that "Die Mannschaft" is foreign usage only. Also, "google it" is no a viable source in the sense of Wikipedia. --Tallyho (talk) 13:17, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please read what I wrote. You clearly don't understand. Perhaps this will help. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:17, 12 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The outcome of the finals does not change anything regarding nicknames or Wikipedia's source policies. If you think I do not understand, please care to explain. I merely stated that it should be made clear in the article that "Die Mannschaft", as common as it might be elsewhere, is not common use in Germany. So, it's actually mostly foreign use only. Also, I never said it's not used in Britain. --Tallyho (talk) 06:49, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Mannschaft" translates as team or crew. It is totally generic and in Germany it is certainly NOT a nickname for the national soccer team. A correct word in German would be "Nationalelf". Since this is the correct technical term it is no nickname, though. I actually cannot think of a nickname similar to Gli Azzurri, Les Bleus etc. What's the nickname for the English National Team?--Hyphantes (talk) 23:41, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What the English National Team's nickname is immaterial to this article. Die Mannschaft is a nickname for the German National Men's team in the English language. If you'd like to compose a phrase for use somewhere in the article that explains that the nickname is not used in Germany and isn't even proper German, it could most certainly be added. However suggesting that it be removed is a non-starter. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:26, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why are you so apologetic? I just asked for the nickname of the English team, because I didn't find it in the respective Wiki-article. If you know it, you could be so kind to tell me, if not, no problem. Regarding the article, I'm comfortable with the current formulation. I'd cut on a few adverbs, but that's stylistic. I doubt however that the English "nickname" is so important to come up in first chapter. As a start, to get this fuss out of the way, I'd put it in last position.--Hyphantes (talk) 11:59, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not apologetic. This article is about the German national team. If you want information about a different team, either Google it or ask at that article. As for importance, try Googling the nicknames and see how many hits you get for each. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:15, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In this discussion thread there are two chapters (6 and 17) questioning the nickname entry. Since it appears questionable (at least to some), as a compromise I proposed to postpone it. Nobody objected, but now it's again in first place. Is this some kind of conspiracy? Please discuss the position here, before putting this chapter in first place again. Otherwise I'll be favourable to cancellation.--Hyphantes (talk) 20:24, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The current wording is pretty decent, as well is the placement imo. --Tallyho (talk) 21:34, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Tallyho. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:08, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad we agree all three, but someone else doesn't. This person, who hasn't found it necessary to explain his opinion in this discussion, keeps putting the nickname chapter in first place. Or is it possible that we are fighting against a bot? I don't think, since it appears that the reverse was somehow camouflaged, because from the description lines in view history I can't seem to find it. However that may be, now we have the curious situation that this secondary information shows up twice in first place, not only in the current text as chapter one, but also in the info box on the right. If we are unable to keep the chapter in the position we agree upon, I propose to eliminate it and put the text in a footnote refering to the info box. I'll wait a few days for your opinion and then I will eventually proceed in this sense.--Hyphantes (talk) 22:28, 3 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As a footnote, please notice what the DFB now uses as the team name at http://www.dfb.de/die-nationalmannschaft/team/?no_cache=1 : "Die Nationalmannschaft" Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:37, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, but only for the English page. On the German page there is no trace of it, neither could be, because as a technical term it would be a source of misunderstandings. If you saw it, it has been removed. The English page has the "nickname" here http://www.dfb.de/en/national-teams/ and here http://www.dfb.de/en/national-teams/the-mannschaft/ --Hyphantes (talk) 18:20, 16 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not only am I right, you are wrong. That is the German page. Check the menu when you get there: News, Mannshchaften, Sportliche Leitung, etc. The Sub menu similarly: Sportliche Leitung, Team hinter dem Team, Unsere Welt. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:56, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I did and I can't find a single example where it says "die Mannschaft" except the two English pages where it says "the Mannschaft". ----------- Oh sorry, now I got it! You say they use "die Nationalmannschaft". Well that's obvious and needs no comment. We've done that for sixty years. Sorry for the misunderstanding, my fault. You are right and I perfectly agree that it's "die Nationalmannschaft". Even better, because more precise, would be "die Nationalelf". The DFB however has no need to specify that, because it's clear that they are always talking about football/soccer. It's THEIR national team. When one of the DHBs uses "die Nationalmannschaft" it's clear that they are talking about the handball or hockey team. Thus a football paper/page will tend to use "die Nationalmannschaft", while a general (sports) paper/page will more often specify "die Nationalelf" to avoid confusion with other sports. --Hyphantes (talk) 10:48, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In 2015 the DFB made "Die Mannschaft" the official nickname. This should end the discussion. Despite Germans won't refer to the team using "Die Mannschaft", because it's too unspecific, the DFB acknowledges the fact that at least the English language used and uses this name, either regularly or occassionally, or in much different words, because marketing. A reference in German: https://www.sport1.de/fussball/dfb-team/2015/06/die-mannschaft-dfb-stellt-neues-logo-fuer-nationalmannschaft-vor -94.220.211.108 (talk) 22:57, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"In 2015 the DFB made "Die Mannschaft" the official nickname. This should end the discussion." That is just some top-down marketing BS perpetrated by Bierhoff which of course no fan ever accepted. What's the point of an official nickname if no one (apart from some English journalists) ever uses it? The Nationalmannschaft simply has no proper nickname that is widely used among fans. DFB-Elf, Nationalelf or Nationalmannschaft are too descriptive to be deemed a nickname anyway. Unlike "Les Bleus" or "Squadra Azzura".--2003:CC:8706:B200:BC44:69CF:4B15:BFF7 (talk) 22:38, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

First WC winner as player and coach??

Article says:

"Beckenbauer, who won the World Cup as the national team's captain in 1974, thus became the first person to win the World Cup as both captain and coach.[36]"

Two problems:

1) Link to FIFA website is broken (404 error).

2) Mário Zagallo actually was the first person to achieve this (player: 1958, coach: 1970 ... also assistant coach: 1994, just sayin')

179.24.104.241 (talk) 22:05, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

2) Zagallo wasn't the captain of the Brazilian national team. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:51:475D:E01:CCFC:6092:4DDB:5A58 (talk) 15:37, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Olympic Title of 1976

Should not the Olympic Titel of 1976 be added to the list of honours? As the East-Germany Football association is now a part of the current National Team, the east Germans also playing for the DFB, it would be logical. Also there is the following quotation at the beginning of the article: "Both have been absorbed along with their records[8][9]"

Apparently their records did not come with them. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:55, 26 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Historic broadcasters

Could some please add in the historic broadcasters of the Germany national football team? Add them on the media coverage section. Wonderwizard (talk) 20:43, August 29 2014 (UTC)

Matches of 2014

I deleted that match vs. Iran in the section "Result & Fixtures 2014" and someone reverted my changes, though I do not understand why.

There is no official International Friendly taking place on December 19th. The last game of the German national team in 2014 is the one against Spain on November 18th. After that there are no matches scheduled for four months - the next game of the German team after that Friendly vs. Spain is one Friendly vs. Israel on March 25th, 2015.

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/nationalelf/laenderspiele/2014/deutsche-laenderspiele-nationalmannschaft.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.200.10.175 (talk) 15:59, 10 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You removed it without explaining why. Doing so looks suspicious even if done with good motives. Explaining here clears up the reason. I have removed it, with a reason, so we'll see what happens now. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:06, 10 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Error confusing wording in opening paragraph

in the opening paragraph it says something along the lines that Germany (or as it is called in Germany, the Nationalelf) has participated in every world cup it was allowed to qualify. Well... this ain't true. In 1930 Germany was allowed to participate but didn't (costs, Uruguay to out of the way, Economic and political crisis, and general meh attitude of European teáms toward the tournament). Either you re-word that in some way or this erroneous information shall be expunged from this here articleHobbitschuster (talk) 17:39, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Germany men's national football team?

Just a question. Why is this article (and other articles about men's national football teams) only called "Germany national football team", instead of "Germany men's national football team"? As I see it, there are two German national football teams: the men's national football team and the women's national football team. The article about Germany men's national ice hockey team is called "Germany men's national ice hockey team". I can not see why football should be different, but I guess FIFA has something to do with it. Best regards /Erik EriFr (talk) 08:12, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I support your Observation.There should be a separate article of Germany Men's Football Team like there is an article of Germany Women's Football Team.The Article Germany National Football Team should include the important information from both the Men National Team and the Women National Team.--Param Mudgal ^talk? 18:22, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you, EriFr and Param Mudgal, however this isn't only the case with the German national football teams, but with basically all of them worldwide, with the single exception of the U.S. teams. I think, the main article should be something like National football teams of Germany, providing an overview about all of the teams: men's, women's, Olympic, juniors' etc. In the specific case of Germany, it should also provide a better and more balanced overview about the former West German and East German national teams. --PanchoS (talk) 00:25, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Param Mudgal and PanchoS: Tank you! I did not realize I had received any replies. I forgot this, but then I saw this and got reminded: Ice hockey at the 2018 Winter Olympics. This could serve as a good example. As you can see, first there is a general article about Ice Hockey at the Winter Olympics, and then articles about the Men's tournament and the Women's tournament. I do not at this point suggest a general article about the "National football team", but I suggest that the article about the Men's national football team, is named "Men's". I can not find any reason why the article about the Men's National football team is named just "National football team". That naming just looks a little stupid to me. Kindest regards /EriFr (talk) 10:02, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to add that I agree with you that there should be a general article about the National football teams. The case with Germany is a good example. Such article would, as PanchoS points out, give a good overview. Kindest /EriFr (talk) 10:20, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Unnecessary, such information could be included on an article such as Football in Germany. As for the article title, it is the WP:COMMONNAME. S.A. Julio (talk) 11:14, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

S.A. Julio Thank you, you are most probably right about WP:COMMONNAME. However, I see that articles about men's national ice hockey teams are consistently named "Men's national ice hockey team", as an example Russia men's national ice hockey team. I seriously doubt that all of these teams are commonly known as "Men's national ice hockey teams" (except during the Winter Olympics every fourth year, where a men's tournament and a women's tournament run parallel). I found this interesting discussion: Wikipedia talk:Article titles/Archive 53#Gender and national sports teams. /EriFr (talk) 19:24, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

ELO

What happened to the Elo-ranking?

I don't understand your question, but I have issues with this "Germany earned the highest ELO rating of any national football team in history, with a record 2,205 points.". It's referencing an article from 2014, but it seems like ELO recalculated it's numbers, probably by adding more data. As a result Germany peaks only second best with 2,223 points at 2014-07-13 behind Hungary with 2,231 points at 1954-06-30. Just check the graph on ELO's website https://www.eloratings.net/graph

'90 world cup

this article mentions fuck all about that one. literally the only thing is "After West Germany's 1990 World Cup win, assistant Berti Vogts took over as the national team coach from the retiring Beckenbauer." winning a world cup is a BIT more noteable than being mentioned like some sort of sidenote. --92.216.208.125 (talk) 01:14, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"West Germany"

"The text you are adding is unsourced. The source at the end of that paragraph clearly says the name West Germany and does not make a distinction of "in international media", that is your original research and I suggest you stop with it, take it to talk!" SheriffIsInTown - And I suggest you to use your brain and read. In the first lines of the article it already stands that "The official name and code "Germany FR (FRG)" was shortened to "Germany (GER)" following the reunification in 1990." The "source" is just an unofficial list which makes no point about the official name of the team. --Ickerbocker (talk) 10:29, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

2014 World Cup section

The brazil semifinal begins with the second half. It seems, that the first half text was deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.91.120.165 (talk) 07:08, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

New section?

I don't know, if the following is relevant, but I suggest to include a section regarding the DFB-Ehrenspielführer (Honoury captains).

Official side — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.91.120.165 (talk) 07:13, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Stop update the current status

Since when do we update the status of the recent call-ups, never has been the case. Otherwise you also have to add, that Özil was left out this time, because he got a rest by Löw. See where that leads, just go back to the old. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.196.216.37 (talk) 13:54, 12 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Germany national football team. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:27, 11 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Home and away, versus first and second kits

Anon made an edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Germany_national_football_team&diff=798274595&oldid=798207057 removing "home" and "away" in the kit history section and instead using first and second kits.

@IVORK: reverted: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Germany_national_football_team&diff=798275119&oldid=798274595 stating that home and away is "more understandable as home / away to new readers".

I'm not sure I agree. First and second does make a lot of sense, and it is inline with the infobox. I have reverted anon until we gain consensus. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:41, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No dramas, I cede the point. Uniformity with all other articles I checked. No need to revert just because it's an anon. But thanks — IVORK _Discuss 00:44, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. I was reverting because of of WP:BRD, not the anon, but same difference. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:45, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Germany national football team. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=500395&action=showMatchesByYear&lang=E&liga=Nationalmannschaft&year=1909&cHash=a80eadb1fb
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.fifa.com/tournaments/archive/tournament%3D512/edition%3D197121/index.html
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/matches/match%3D2063/index.html
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141006184319/https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rio-report/mueller-world-cup-superstar-messi-wishes-could-132854319.html to https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rio-report/mueller-world-cup-superstar-messi-wishes-could-132854319.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:58, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Germany national football team. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:00, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Draxler has never been the regular Captain of Germany, therefore doesn't belong onto the list of captains. Neuer did not play the Confed Cup, because he was rested by the coach, as were many other regulars. Draxler was only the substitut-captain for that tournament, because somebody had to be. Neuer was still the official captain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.173.146.180 (talk) 18:32, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

List of Germany Captains

Draxler has never been the regular Captain of Germany, therefore doesn't belong onto the list of captains. Neuer did not play the Confed Cup, because he was rested by the coach, as were many other regulars. Draxler was only the substitute-captain for that tournament, because somebody had to be. Neuer was still the official captain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.173.146.180 (talk) 18:34, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Fixtures for the end of 2018

The Fixtures against France, Russia and the Netherlands now have finalized locations. The venues will be Munich, Leipzig and Gelsenkirchen (order as before).

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/nationalelf/719115/artikel_nach-der-wm_nationalmannschaft-startet-in-muenchen.html

Is somebody taking care of this article?

Draxler still on the list of captains. Neuer hasn't been called up for Germany within the last 12 months, other players have erased from "recent call-ups".

If nobody is taking care, just open up editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.78.178.157 (talk) 18:06, 26 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Future results and national matches

Germany-Perù friendly match on 9 September at Sinsheim. For last results and matches programms this on this link. Bye.--95.247.111.129 (talk) 17:33, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No Olympic Games for German men

Hello Walter,

Look history of the articles, sources were already here when the sentence say another thing. In July 2017, the sentence is "after the 2017 Confederations Cup it became one of the only four nations - alongside Brazil, Argentina and France - to win all full senior international major titles: FIFA World Cup, Confederations Cup and the applicable continental tournament". After, open sources, the sources allow to say "to have won both the men's and women's World Cups" (precedent sentence) but in source 13 : in side of "other titles", there is a link "Association Information". The new page say : "Other FIFA Titles FIFA Confederations Cup 2017, FIFA Women's World Cup Final 2003 - 2007, FIFA U-20 World Cup Final 1981, FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup Final 2004 - 2010 - 2014, Olympic Football Tournament Women Final 2016". No Olympic Football Tournament Men Final. Only, next sentence : "Runners-Up: [...] Olympic Football Tournament Final 2016" ;-)

Please, for next time, talk in discussion page before cancelling modifications. Or why must I discuss here whereas it's you who cancel modifications ?

GabrieL (talk) 16:53, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The process is WP:BRD. You were bold in your change. I reverted. Then comes discussion. It's not bold, discuss, revert, although I've seen that work as well. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:01, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I discuss. I gave my arguments: FIFA don't recognize any Olympic title for men team. What are your arguments for not revert your revert? I believe @Wildboy7: agrees with me (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=France_national_football_team&diff=prev&oldid=858849993 or https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Argentina_national_football_team&diff=prev&oldid=799365653). GabrieL (talk) 08:53, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You discussed it on my talk page, not here. Editors of this article are not going to come to my talk page to discuss this, are they? There's an edit notice on my talk page that explains this.

FIFA doesn't recognize Olympic tittles, but this article isn't about FIFA-only competitions. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:56, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

FIFA recognise Olympic competition and recognize victory of East Germany in this competition and not recognize Germany team in the continuity of East Germany team but only of West Germany team. I repeat the sentence of the article : "to win all three most important men's titles recognised by FIFA" and the FIFA doesn't recognised this title for German men. We must remove this sentence, 1- this sentence is wrong 2- the sources do not say that. GabrieL (talk) 08:30, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. I meant it was a U-23 competition and not recognized for the senior men's team.

It's my understanding that after reunification, the records of the East were merged with the West. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:44, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

my understanding Yes, it's YOUR understanding, it's not the information of the sources. And only information of the sources is important. The German Football Association (Deutscher Fußball-Bund) is the same federation than the federation of West Germany before 1990 ; The East German Football Association (Deutscher Fußball-Verband der DDR was dissolved in 1990. No fusion of the two federations, the clubs of the dissolved federation left the dissolved federation and joined the other. GabrieL (talk) 09:16, 23 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. I meant it was a U-23 competition and not recognized for the senior men's team. It's not really a U-23 competition, actually every player of German team is eligible for playing in Olympic team, there is just quota between players U-23 and older players (3 older players maximum by team). In addition, the regulation of football teams at the Olympic Games has changed several times and the last rule on ages is recent (since 1992) compared to the history of football at the Olympics (since 1900). But no matter the rules, the Olympic title does not appear in the prize list of the German Football Association for men. GabrieL (talk) 09:31, 23 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Other source: for Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation, Germany includes West Germany but not East Germany for all statistics : [1]. For the article Germany Olympic football team, best result: silver and the statistics are with West Germany and without East Germany. We must be consistent with sources and other articles of Wikipedia. GabrieL (talk) 11:10, 23 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Walter Görlitz: GabrieL (talk) 14:30, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No need to ping me as this article is on my watchlist. This is not a two-person discussion. Have you informed the WP:FOOTY project about this change? Clearly Wildboy7 doesn't care to make the change despite your claim that the editor agreed with you. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:40, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's you that revert me. Have you informed the FOOTY project about this revert? 1- It's you that don't respect sources, not me (Wikipedia:Five pillars). 2- No need to ping you? but you are the contributor that revert me. If I convince you, who for revert me? An other person who don't respect sources? GabrieL (talk) 09:07, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not my job. You removed the content. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:12, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's not your job to revert a correct modification:

1- The content is wrong

2- and the associated sources say the opposite.

3- When the sentence was written with this sources, the sentence didn't say that but "after the 2017 Confederations Cup it became one of the only four nations - alongside Brazil, Argentina and France - to win all full senior international major titles: FIFA World Cup, Confederations Cup and the applicable continental tournament". No olympic tournament in this sentence.

4- Moreover, the sources do not say either that it is the fourth nation but only German team won this three tournaments. For the four nations, we only know by cross-checking with other articles or personal knowledge.

5- According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, "The lead serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important contents." this content is not even developed in the body of the article.

This is a lot of flaws that justifies the deletion of this sentence. GabrieL (talk) 10:24, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So the only flaw is in your logic and it breaks down at item 1. You wrote that the content is wrong, but the actual statement should have been that you claim it's wrong. Take it to FOOTY. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:57, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't my logic, it's the SOURCES. Our work in Wikipedia must use the sources (Wikipedia:Five pillars), it's yet the same pillars in French and English Wikipedias !! I write in FOOTY but waste of energy, it was so much easier for everybody that you revert your revert. GabrieL (talk) 17:02, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Winning Olympic gold isn't not listed on FIFA here: [2] though it is for other countries going back to at least the 1920s. It also appears based on the diff the statistic on the French encyclopedia page is WP:OR, which is where the confusion comes from. SportingFlyer talk 06:19, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Good observation. FIFA lists the Olympics under "Other FIFA titels" for Brazil, Argentina and France but not for Germany. West Germany and post-unification Germany are generally considered as different periods of the Federal Republic of German and, rightly or wrongly, their sporting achievements generally get combined, with East Germany considered a separate entity. Jts1882 | talk 08:37, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cf. List of FIFA World Cup records#cite note-9, List of FIFA World Cup records#cite note-13, List of FIFA World Cup records#Teams: Matches played/goals scored, National team appearances in the FIFA World Cup#cite note-Germany-15 too. GabrieL (talk) 09:04, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No German source ever credits East Germany's Olympic win to current Germany. -Koppapa (talk) 05:35, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Walter Görlitz, In accordance with the sources and opinions expressed here, I will correct the article in a few days. GabrieL (talk) 09:27, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Current Squad

In the current squad section , I made some edit stating that Julian Brandt and Nico Schulz both play for Borussia Dortmund . Why have they been reverted ? Bonecruncher (talk) 07:16, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Bonecruncher: Because the transfers will not take effect until 1 July. Granted, the next match is not after the transfer date, but the note states "The following players were selected for the Euro 2020 qualifiying games against Belarus and Estonia on 8 and 11 June 2019" and so should reflect that, not next match. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:46, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Walter Görlitz:Will Brandt and Schulz be eligible to play in pre-season frendlies for Dortmund in June ? Bonecruncher (talk) 16:01, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Contractually, I suspect not. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:27, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ambiguous status in "Goalscorers" section

I'm sorry to discuss the goalscorers section since March 2019, but I think it's very important to inform the people about this issue. I see the rule that the bolded name denotes available player for selection, but no players on the list meet this rule (most of them had retired, though). Thomas Müller hasn't announced retirement, but people think he has (this also applies to Boateng and Hummels). None of them are included in the recent call-up section. We need a decision to be applied (at least until July 2020, without any announcements). Should we keep the formatting just like in November 2018 or we need to unbold his name without adding "possible" end year? Thanks for the reply anyway. Rizhmd21 Talk 14:46, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Until the player announces their retirement, it makes no sense to prematurely create an untruth in the table. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:45, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So, your reply indicates that we should keep the current formatting until the player officially retires. Thanks for your explanation. Rizhmd21 Talk 20:48, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Results and fixtures

Pinging Canon 108: The results and fixtures sections usually have a general rule to retain the results from the previous year, in addition to all future fixtures. Though the results and future fixtures can be found on other articles, it is useful to readers to find the most recent matches on the main national team article. Retaining the results of the previous year provides a consistent approach, otherwise when should they be removed, on 1 January? Readers would still expect to find the recent results. This general rule is also followed at articles such as Argentina national football team, Brazil national football team, Italy national football team, Mexico national football team, France national football team, Croatia national football team, etc. If you disagree it would be better to have a wider discussion at WikiProject Football over the matter. S.A. Julio (talk) 23:29, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have not made an exhaustive search, but the national team articles for Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina, Italy, France, Spain, England, Hungary, Sweden, United States and Canada all have the current year and the one previous year. While there is not formal rule, it certainly seems as though it's standard practice. If you want a formal rule, however, you might want to take it up by starting a new discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football or another public location as your rule would affect many other articles. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:35, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Current title is grammatically wrong

The current title is grammatically wrong in English, and this is the English Wikipedia.

Why isn't this titled German national football team? That is grammatically proper. The only discussion (one single comment using an "other things" argument) of the 2011 move to this title that I can find is this one: Talk:Germany national football team/Archive 2#Move to German national football team. Have there been other discussions? -- BullRangifer (talk) 15:58, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

All team articles are "{nation} national {localized name of sport} team" and some include the gender. So it is not not the English national football team, but rather England national football team, American men's national soccer team but United States men's national soccer team. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:28, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

BR'r, you do not get it. You are stuck on what is something to be titled or expressed rather than how is something expressed in its origins. In effect you are advocating that those that originate something have no right to how it is expressed if that is not expressible in the language of a people that originate something. The downfall of your suggestion is that English itself has how many exceptions in it? So it is okay for English to use these exceptions but it is not relevent to use exceptions when it comes to a national team title from the very people that originated it? This is as if how a nation using its own language for something they developed. What, has WP reached its limit as to how things are expressed should be not the language of origin but the way another people express it in their own language. I say we should start to list people's name not by the style used back home but what can gain an acceptability such as the "last names" of people from say Spanish speaking countries No more "Lopez Cantu" If it needs to be in WP then it will need to be phrased Cantu Lopez.2603:8000:D300:D0F:CD09:69D4:A998:CC11 (talk) 02:23, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that it was a little confusing somebody should do something about it and all the other national football team titles. Zlatan markaçşi (talk) 16:25, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

They are correct though. This would be come confusing because German is an adjective describing both the nation and the language so "Germany" is more clear. There are national teams that do not field players born in the nation and so they represent that nation and the players are not correctly described. If you want this changed take it up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football or possibly a village pump location. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:36, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@ Walter görlitz it could be renamed the football team of german y Zlatan markaçşi (talk) 09:07, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Germany Zlatan markaçşi (talk) 09:07, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It could be renamed a lot of things, but take it to a place where it consensus can be reached about all articles, not just this one. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:15, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Article titles should be as they are represented in an organizations charter rather than just translating something then apply English grammar rules to it thus changing wht is the name of a non-English country. We generally do not call US examples as American because it is the "United States of America" and truncated to United States. We do not call those organizations within the USA as United Statesian. The Mexico National Football Team is a very good example that when you change a word(s) from its original language to something that visually looks better than grammatically correct. The word Mexico in Spanish is pronounced Meh-he-co which is gender neutral and i used to distinguish the nation from the nationality. Meh-he-caahn-o/a the title would be reflected as such in its original documentation but it is not. It is not WP's to tell another nation what it should be calling a native organization just because it does not fit English grammar. When I start to make suggestions as to what a title should be I review what is in the native language article.If what the English version is not reflected adequately in the translation. This is supported by the many nations their title being used in WP. Italy not Italian, France not French, India not Indian, Australia not Australian, etc. For some people the transition will be difficult because they may have the tendency to be very conservative in this issue and not so keen to let English disappear from the face of the earth I hope that covers why users of Aerican English nd those of Britain British English do not need to consult decades of pperwork detailing how did . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8000:D300:D0F:CD09:69D4:A998:CC11 (talk) 23:43, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Germany Men's Football Team Logo

Every banner, social media page, and piece of merchandise for the team has the crest with the four stars arching around the emblem. How do we fix the logo on the main page? Since everything coming out of the DFB contradicts the logo on the wikipedia page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canon 108 (talk • contribs) 16:39, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Canon 108: File:DFBEagle.svg is what we use in the infobox, and it was updated with four stars in 2015. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:59, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Walter Görlitz: I understand that's what's used, I'm well aware the crest adds a star when a world cup is won, but the DFB use a different logo. Their logo has the stars arching around the crest...on their social media, on their merchandise, on their banners during press conferences, and on their official site it's like that. Why doesn't wikipedia use the official logo?

thumb — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canon 108 (talk • contribs) 01:44, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I see. Should be easy enough to update. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:51, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Walter Görlitz: I've never updated a page image...and I think there was a back and forth a few years back when they won and the main image was locked. But I've never seen the Men's logo as wikipedia posted...I've only ever seen it with the arching stars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canon 108 (talk • contribs) 01:58, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Someone with editing skills should be able to do it. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:12, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Is there anyone that can edit the logo so that it accurately reflects the one presented by the DFB? The one on the page has never been used in any way and the one on the DFB official site, the kits, and all promotional materials show the one I posted in the above post. Canon 108 (talk) 15:17, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Honours

I don't think we should list 4th in the World Cup or semi-final in the Euros for Germany, it's just ranking and not significant title for Germany. Freedom, democracy, human rights and national interest (talk) 13:15, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Island92: What do you think about this? Freedom, democracy, human rights and national interest (talk) 13:44, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unlike you, I do think we should list 4th places. In any case, you'd better get consensus before making this edit.--Island92 (talk) 13:52, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Island92: Then I'll delete the semi-finals, okay? Freedom, democracy, human rights and national interest (talk) 13:54, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with removing those. Honours should be 1st, 2nd and 3rd places. Kante4 (talk) 13:56, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, so we're going to remove fourth and semi-final? Freedom, democracy, human rights and national interest (talk) 13:57, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please give a conclusion, I will wait for you, thanks. Freedom, democracy, human rights and national interest (talk) 14:00, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. Let's hold 1st, 2nd and 3rd places.--Island92 (talk) 14:04, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you guys, so stick to the conclusion, goodbye. Freedom, democracy, human rights and national interest (talk) 14:07, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think excluding the semi-finals and fourth place from the title section should always apply to other teams, over. Idealistic socialism (talk) 12:40, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It depends entirely on the team. If it is the highest achievement, it makes sense to include it. Some nations never make it that far. While if it is a lower achievement than one already there, I would have to determine its importance of the team. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:43, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

German national football team or Germany national football team

Hello, quick question about the prefered formating of this football team on other pages. Could someone take a look at this edit and let me know which is correct? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_people_from_Huntington_Beach,_California&type=revision&diff=1093637414&oldid=1090987275&diffmode=source

Thanks! Dr vulpes ^{(💬 • 📝)} 22:24, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Germany is a nation; German is a nationality or ethnicity

Usually national teams get their name from its legal documentation usually including reference to that team's via a translation of the name into English. German is not a nation but a nationality or ethnicity. Usually national team's names do not translate into nationality or ethnicity. If the source of a name or title is based on legal documentation. Even wen the name or title of the team is truncated it goes with the nation concept not nationality or ethnicity. In many countries it is not even necessary to be a "green card resident" or citizen to be on that country's national team so that just reinforces that these "grammatical" approaches to what to call national teams incorrect. Example: The national team of Mexico is not correct in English to call it Mexican national team. It is Mexico or " Meh-he-co not Mexicano or Mexicana. United States national team is not United Statesian, not even American, Its United States. But I realize many in WP are attached to wanting to change nationalities and ethnicies to the "ian" etc to make it look "grammatically" correct when the official title is always correct.2603:8000:D300:D0F:CD09:69D4:A998:CC11 (talk) 20:36, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why "men's" dont exist in some sports as do "women's"

It took only 20 years to change the opinion of "proper" grammar and literal translation of titles in languags other than English. I am glad I took the chance on bringing it up years ago. But work on Germany will take a while because there are far nore layers there to describe. Why "men's" is far less prevlent than "women's" is probably an attept to not flood the system with corrections and peolpe holding out that "German" is just as good as Germany, the later the word for nation. But to know you are on the right track all you need to do to better understand if something needs to be done about a particular country has to be redone is what does the original documented words tell you.2603:8000:D300:D0F:CD09:69D4:A998:CC11 (talk) 15:14, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Neuer's goal

Under Germany_national_football_team#Most_capped_players, the table lists Manuel Neuer as having 0 goals, and above that it says "As of 1 December 2022". But Neuer scored an own goal against Costa Rica last night, doesn't that count as a goal for him? Or do we only count "proper" goals? —Mahāgaja · talk 09:55, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mahagaja: Sorry but is this serious? If yes then sorry, but we only count goals scored and no own goals. Kante4 (talk) 12:50, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Kante4: Thanks. Yes, it was a serious question. After all, his name is listed in the game statistics as the person who scored the goal, so it's not unreasonable to expect that to be reflected in the table. —Mahāgaja · talk 12:54, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mahagaja: I think it is clear that own goals are not reflected there, as it says goals scored and an own goal is completely different, so i was/am confused about that question but all good. Kante4 (talk) 15:01, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dispute of Title

The Title "German national Team" is ambiguouse. Suggestion to rename the page Title to "Germany male national football team" or similar to ensure clarity.

See here. Kante4 (talk) 10:17, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Firing/Sacking of Flick

[3]https://www.fussballdaten.de/news/dfb-team/-aus-fuer-flick-mit-zahlen-des-grauens-8a648479/

Translation not withstanding, an 'interesting' read. I assume no takeaways (additions) are to be considered for this article since 'There is no I in TEAM ; :) 96.252.76.112 (talk) 21:52, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Afghanistan national football team which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 15:24, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Afghanistan national football team which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 14:54, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Edit of the players names. 2 of them retired from the national team. Ayusman Das 1 (talk) 16:16, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. PianoDan (talk) 18:35, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stats for Summer Olympic Games are outdated

Germany has by now participated in 10 (and not 8) olympic summer games with the best result being 2nd place in 2016 (and not 3rd in 1988).

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_at_the_Summer_Olympics SeanSdahl (talk) 19:08, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, but those tournaments are under-23 since 1992. So this article is the one. Kante4 (talk) 19:22, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Olympic gold won by East Germany

If the records of the Democratic Republic of Germany were absorbed in GER statistics, shouldn't be normal to put the Olympic gold from Montréal 1976 in the medal history, along with the bronze from Seoul 1988? 135.19.14.67 (talk) 19:42, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]